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  • #16
    Re: Constitution update 2017

    Steve,
    I have considered carefully the points that you have made and will deal with them in the order that you have posted them.

    To summarise your points:
    1) Any voting member should be a full member
    2) Voting should not be restricted to the AGM attendees
    3) You would like the club’s membership to be younger
    4) You would like non-members to access the forums
    5) Accepting help from people who do not attend the AGM
    6) Allow the indiscriminate use of Marlin Owners Club name
    7) Allow unrestricted use of the clubs copyright material
    8) Adopt an overriding philosophy, a holistic approach, to the committee decisions
    9) Publicise the date, place and agenda for committee meetings
    10) Broadcast the AGM and possibly other meetings

    1) Any voting member should be a full member
    The club is operated on a not for profit basis. Our memberships pricing is set up to recover costs appropriate to that member. Partner members share the clubs facilities with their partner. The privilege to vote is very rarely available and is not a significant club benefit. Anything more than 50p would be inappropriate.

    A number of “A. N. Others” make a wonderful contribution to the club and club events.

    2) Voting should not be restricted to the AGM attendees
    We have tried to engage people through the forums but most attempts fail to engage many members. Most of the members when asked said they enjoy the technical discussions but are disappointed by the bickering.

    The web site is gaining in popularity and will continue to do so. In the year between April 2016 and April 2017 AGM to AGM that over 53% of our members signed in. About 34% made posts. Many more people browse it.

    If there was anything to vote on at this year’s AGM I would have posted it here and requested members who express a preference to contact me. If there is any possibility of a vote in May 2018 I promise to do the same. I believe the last time there was a committee membership vote was 2011.

    The club committee is undermanned. Several members have wanted to step aside for some years. I am only doing this because nobody else has come forward. I am not an ideal candidate. I promised to do this two years my term ends in May 2018. If nobody steps forward before May 2018 this website will close.

    Furthermore, Geoff Grumble is currently both Chairman and Editor. That is an unacceptable situation. If we do not get a new committee member before the AGM it will become an EGM to wind up the club.

    I repeat that any nominations for committee membership can be made at any time using any method to any committee member.

    Committee members do not have to attend every meeting in person. Any nominations for any position are welcome. There is no explicit requirement to be at the AGM.

    3) You would like the club’s membership to be younger
    We all want that.

    The carping of old men in this thread is doing nothing to aid that.

    I know of no one who has been “edged out”.

    4) You would like non-members to access the forums
    I think you actually mean ex-members who can bring a wealth of experience to newer members. Completely open forums are available elsewhere. They are funded by advertising for profit not by members for members.

    As you well know access by ex-members is controlled automatically as a side-effect of the introduction of PayPal. It was not a decision made by the committee.

    5) Accepting help from people who do not attend the AGM
    We accept help wherever we can get it. Any number of sterling members regularly helps the club in numerous ways. There are no prerequisites to helping the club.

    We have in the past requested that you help us but you declined.

    6) Allow the indiscriminate use of Marlin Owners Club name
    Use of the club name and logo must only be used with clubs prior permission.

    That is not because of a parochial attitude or arrogance but because unequivocal support for any use must come from the clubs members.

    7) Allow unrestricted use of the clubs copyright material
    The clubs materials are a membership benefit provided voluntarily for the clubs exclusive use. The club is not free to share that material outside of the membership. Members wishing uncontrolled access to their assets can use an open access website.

    Tech tips CD was removed from the clubs goods because there is no demand for an item that can be downloaded for free from the member’s area. Among the benefits we list on the welcome page “huge amounts of knowledge on general kit car builds”. “Tech tips” is a part of that knowledge. It is a benefit to members.

    8) Adopt an overriding philosophy, a holistic approach, to the committee decisions
    The committee balances the views of as many members as possible in coming to any decisions. Naturally some will be disappointed by every decision we take. For example the committee get accused of introducing technology too quickly and not quickly enough so I think we must have the balance about right.

    9) Publicise the date, place and agenda for committee meetings
    This is impractical and not really necessary. If any member wishes the committee to consider any topic at any time they should contact us immediately. The committee will quite often take a decision by consultation with each other at any time.

    10) Broadcast the AGM and possibly other meetings
    I have looked into this in the past. It is not that easy. The AGM is effectively held in the middle of a field but I think that can be overcome. As a first step I thought we could set up a web cam so that other members could view and hear the proceedings. But it takes time, effort and money. If somebody is willing to put in the time and effort I am fairly confident that the money could be found.

    Incidentally, we have used conferencing tools for committee meeting with some success. It is a fact that all committee members do not have to be physically present to “attend” a meeting.

    You are not just rude but wrong to suggest that we are fuddy duddies. We use the latest technologies where and when appropriate. But we also serve the reasonable percentage of our members without emails.

    Finally I would like to draw your attention to our code of conduct which under the heading misconduct lists:
    a) behaviours that are discriminatory or that insult, antagonise or harass other club members
    b) abusive language
    c) behaviour that damages the reputation of the Marlin Owners Club

    You might like to consider how your posts relate to these points

    You are right to say that the future of the MOC relies on keeping Marlins on the road, and attracting and retaining members. But that is the responsibility of every member of the club not just the committee.

    Steve, you make such a positive contribution to these forums over 2,500 posts. I have no doubt that you will reply to this post. I doubt that your reply will be consolatory. But I ask that you live up to your “repeating mantra that the MOC needs to attract new blood, to involve them in the club. If the MOC is not seen as progressive, it will die.”

    Many of the points you raise have been discussed ad nauseam. We have explained the reasons why the things you want are not appropriate. Just because the conclusions do not fit with your own agenda does not mean that this and previous committees have not considered them sympathetically.

    I too end on a George Bernard Shaw quote:
    “Any public committee man who tries to pack the moral cards in the interest of his own notions is guilty of corruption and impertinence.”


    I will read with interest any post wishing to contribute to the rewording of the constitution as requested in my original post.
    Paul

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Constitution update 2017

      Originally posted by milliemarlin View Post
      Steve,
      I have considered carefully the points that you have made and will deal with them in the order that you have posted them.

      To summarise your points:
      1) Any voting member should be a full member
      2) Voting should not be restricted to the AGM attendees
      3) You would like the club’s membership to be younger
      4) You would like non-members to access the forums
      5) Accepting help from people who do not attend the AGM
      6) Allow the indiscriminate use of Marlin Owners Club name
      7) Allow unrestricted use of the clubs copyright material
      8) Adopt an overriding philosophy, a holistic approach, to the committee decisions
      9) Publicise the date, place and agenda for committee meetings
      10) Broadcast the AGM and possibly other meetings

      1) Any voting member should be a full member
      The club is operated on a not for profit basis. Our memberships pricing is set up to recover costs appropriate to that member. Partner members share the clubs facilities with their partner. The privilege to vote is very rarely available and is not a significant club benefit. Anything more than 50p would be inappropriate.

      A number of “A. N. Others” make a wonderful contribution to the club and club events.

      2) Voting should not be restricted to the AGM attendees
      We have tried to engage people through the forums but most attempts fail to engage many members. Most of the members when asked said they enjoy the technical discussions but are disappointed by the bickering.

      The web site is gaining in popularity and will continue to do so. In the year between April 2016 and April 2017 AGM to AGM that over 53% of our members signed in. About 34% made posts. Many more people browse it.

      If there was anything to vote on at this year’s AGM I would have posted it here and requested members who express a preference to contact me. If there is any possibility of a vote in May 2018 I promise to do the same. I believe the last time there was a committee membership vote was 2011.

      The club committee is undermanned. Several members have wanted to step aside for some years. I am only doing this because nobody else has come forward. I am not an ideal candidate. I promised to do this two years my term ends in May 2018. If nobody steps forward before May 2018 this website will close.

      Furthermore, Geoff Grumble is currently both Chairman and Editor. That is an unacceptable situation. If we do not get a new committee member before the AGM it will become an EGM to wind up the club.

      I repeat that any nominations for committee membership can be made at any time using any method to any committee member.

      Committee members do not have to attend every meeting in person. Any nominations for any position are welcome. There is no explicit requirement to be at the AGM.

      3) You would like the club’s membership to be younger
      We all want that.

      The carping of old men in this thread is doing nothing to aid that.

      I know of no one who has been “edged out”.

      4) You would like non-members to access the forums
      I think you actually mean ex-members who can bring a wealth of experience to newer members. Completely open forums are available elsewhere. They are funded by advertising for profit not by members for members.

      As you well know access by ex-members is controlled automatically as a side-effect of the introduction of PayPal. It was not a decision made by the committee.

      5) Accepting help from people who do not attend the AGM
      We accept help wherever we can get it. Any number of sterling members regularly helps the club in numerous ways. There are no prerequisites to helping the club.

      We have in the past requested that you help us but you declined.

      6) Allow the indiscriminate use of Marlin Owners Club name
      Use of the club name and logo must only be used with clubs prior permission.

      That is not because of a parochial attitude or arrogance but because unequivocal support for any use must come from the clubs members.

      7) Allow unrestricted use of the clubs copyright material
      The clubs materials are a membership benefit provided voluntarily for the clubs exclusive use. The club is not free to share that material outside of the membership. Members wishing uncontrolled access to their assets can use an open access website.

      Tech tips CD was removed from the clubs goods because there is no demand for an item that can be downloaded for free from the member’s area. Among the benefits we list on the welcome page “huge amounts of knowledge on general kit car builds”. “Tech tips” is a part of that knowledge. It is a benefit to members.

      8) Adopt an overriding philosophy, a holistic approach, to the committee decisions
      The committee balances the views of as many members as possible in coming to any decisions. Naturally some will be disappointed by every decision we take. For example the committee get accused of introducing technology too quickly and not quickly enough so I think we must have the balance about right.

      9) Publicise the date, place and agenda for committee meetings
      This is impractical and not really necessary. If any member wishes the committee to consider any topic at any time they should contact us immediately. The committee will quite often take a decision by consultation with each other at any time.

      10) Broadcast the AGM and possibly other meetings
      I have looked into this in the past. It is not that easy. The AGM is effectively held in the middle of a field but I think that can be overcome. As a first step I thought we could set up a web cam so that other members could view and hear the proceedings. But it takes time, effort and money. If somebody is willing to put in the time and effort I am fairly confident that the money could be found.

      Incidentally, we have used conferencing tools for committee meeting with some success. It is a fact that all committee members do not have to be physically present to “attend” a meeting.

      You are not just rude but wrong to suggest that we are fuddy duddies. We use the latest technologies where and when appropriate. But we also serve the reasonable percentage of our members without emails.

      Finally I would like to draw your attention to our code of conduct which under the heading misconduct lists:
      a) behaviours that are discriminatory or that insult, antagonise or harass other club members
      b) abusive language
      c) behaviour that damages the reputation of the Marlin Owners Club

      You might like to consider how your posts relate to these points

      You are right to say that the future of the MOC relies on keeping Marlins on the road, and attracting and retaining members. But that is the responsibility of every member of the club not just the committee.

      Steve, you make such a positive contribution to these forums over 2,500 posts. I have no doubt that you will reply to this post. I doubt that your reply will be consolatory. But I ask that you live up to your “repeating mantra that the MOC needs to attract new blood, to involve them in the club. If the MOC is not seen as progressive, it will die.”

      Many of the points you raise have been discussed ad nauseam. We have explained the reasons why the things you want are not appropriate. Just because the conclusions do not fit with your own agenda does not mean that this and previous committees have not considered them sympathetically.

      I too end on a George Bernard Shaw quote:
      “Any public committee man who tries to pack the moral cards in the interest of his own notions is guilty of corruption and impertinence.”


      I will read with interest any post wishing to contribute to the rewording of the constitution as requested in my original post.
      Paul

      Wow, how to twist my comments to suit your agenda. I never mentioned or used a George Bernard Shaw quote, who else did?
      I will deal with it in a few days, I am on my travels again.
      MOC member since 05/97
      1984 Marlin Roadster SWB.
      1800TC, Unleaded ported head, stage 2 cam. Ford Type 9 gearbox, Dolomite Sprint rear axle fitted with MGF disc brakes.
      Three core radiator, Renault Clio vented front discs.
      The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

      Loads of Marlin Reference can be found documents here or there.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Constitution update 2017

        The reasonable man adapts himself to the world .....
        GBS

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Constitution update 2017

          Originally posted by lynnx22 View Post
          The reasonable man adapts himself to the world .....
          GBS
          +1..
          - 9th owner of T693 SSC possibly a factory built Ford based V8 Sportster
          - 4th owner of Q309 RNV, an early Cabrio built by Bob Copping, owned Doug & Liz Billings for 16 years
          - 9th Custodian of JRR 929D, Triumph Vitesse based special Paul Moorehouse built prior to the Triumph Roadster kits.
          - 8th owner of Roadster chassis number 2395. Now owned by Barry!
          - Builder of chassis number 2325 (PKK 989M) in the mid 80's. Now owned by Eric & Lynne.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Constitution update 2017

            Well if we are going to quote GBS, we should also consider:

            Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.

            Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.
            2000 Marlin Cabrio LWB; 2.0 L Burton Pinto in Ford Nightfire Red with Magnolia leather interior.

            http://www.marlinownersclub.com/wppg...&image_id=2349

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Constitution update 2017

              I can hardly wait for the reply!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Constitution update 2017

                Don't worry, he will.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Constitution update 2017

                  Wow! Being a new member i am somewhat taken back by the thread and comments. I'd be happy with a cup of tea

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Constitution update 2017

                    Welcome Steve, well at least these forums aren't like some, nothing but tumbleweed and emptiness, just look at it as entertainment :-)
                    - 9th owner of T693 SSC possibly a factory built Ford based V8 Sportster
                    - 4th owner of Q309 RNV, an early Cabrio built by Bob Copping, owned Doug & Liz Billings for 16 years
                    - 9th Custodian of JRR 929D, Triumph Vitesse based special Paul Moorehouse built prior to the Triumph Roadster kits.
                    - 8th owner of Roadster chassis number 2395. Now owned by Barry!
                    - Builder of chassis number 2325 (PKK 989M) in the mid 80's. Now owned by Eric & Lynne.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Constitution update 2017

                      Hi Steve,

                      As with all groups of people we will have differences of opinion, that should be seen as healthy debate. As a club we should want the members to interact, discuss, exchange views/advice, build knowledge stores and generally get to know the others just as long as we remember to be polite and respect the other club members.

                      I also subscribe to the TVR Chimaera Facebook group and trust me compared to that these forums are all sweetness and light.

                      Anyway welcome to the club and enjoy the debates.....

                      Neil (aka Wigs)
                      2000 Marlin Cabrio LWB; 2.0 L Burton Pinto in Ford Nightfire Red with Magnolia leather interior.

                      http://www.marlinownersclub.com/wppg...&image_id=2349

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Constitution update 2017

                        Hi Steve,

                        As with all groups of people we will have differences of opinion, that should be seen as healthy debate. As a club we should want the members to interact, discuss, exchange views/advice, build knowledge stores and generally get to know the others just as long as we remember to be polite and respect the other club members.

                        I also subscribe to the TVR Chimaera Facebook group and trust me compared to that these forums are all sweetness and light.

                        Anyway welcome to the club and enjoy the debates.....

                        Neil (aka Wigs)
                        2000 Marlin Cabrio LWB; 2.0 L Burton Pinto in Ford Nightfire Red with Magnolia leather interior.

                        http://www.marlinownersclub.com/wppg...&image_id=2349

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Constitution update 2017

                          Hi Peeps,

                          Not posted for a while but I just read my Pitstop and felt moved to have a look at the issues raised and dust off the keyboard.

                          For what it may or may not be worth, the Committee has my complete support and as far as I am concerned can run things however they damn well please up to and including mandating 14 foot neon orange pennants complete with club logo to be flown from all member cars at all times and introducing a voting system so draconian that a representative of the North Korean government might mutter the equivalent of 'Oh, I say, hang on, that's a bit much...'

                          Running the club has the website and forum to manage, newsletters to try and get articles for and then publish and then circulate, memberships to sort, events to run, register or advertise and sundry other non-blasting-around-the-countryside-in-a-Marlin type activity.

                          I like the forum, I like the newsletter and I like the idea that there might be an event or two I could come along to if only the Roadster had a dashboard and some wiring. I also have a (somewhat precarious) full time job, an interesting collection of family health issues and little time. What Marlin-related time I do get will be selfishly spent with crimping tool, soldering iron and heat gun.

                          Anyone willing to step up, or already stepped up, or especially having been stepped up for a long time and possibly preferring not to be stepped up but persisting anyway, to help to keep the club ticking along has my gratitude, my complete and unconditional support and free beer when/if I eventually get back on the road and get to something.

                          Cheers,

                          TomG.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Constitution update 2017

                            Originally posted by happyferret View Post
                            Hi Peeps,

                            Not posted for a while but I just read my Pitstop and felt moved to have a look at the issues raised and dust off the keyboard.

                            For what it may or may not be worth, the Committee has my complete support and as far as I am concerned can run things however they damn well please up to and including mandating 14 foot neon orange pennants complete with club logo to be flown from all member cars at all times and introducing a voting system so draconian that a representative of the North Korean government might mutter the equivalent of 'Oh, I say, hang on, that's a bit much...'

                            Running the club has the website and forum to manage, newsletters to try and get articles for and then publish and then circulate, memberships to sort, events to run, register or advertise and sundry other non-blasting-around-the-countryside-in-a-Marlin type activity.

                            I like the forum, I like the newsletter and I like the idea that there might be an event or two I could come along to if only the Roadster had a dashboard and some wiring. I also have a (somewhat precarious) full time job, an interesting collection of family health issues and little time. What Marlin-related time I do get will be selfishly spent with crimping tool, soldering iron and heat gun.

                            Anyone willing to step up, or already stepped up, or especially having been stepped up for a long time and possibly preferring not to be stepped up but persisting anyway, to help to keep the club ticking along has my gratitude, my complete and unconditional support and free beer when/if I eventually get back on the road and get to something.

                            Cheers,

                            TomG.
                            Well I was nearly brought to tears.

                            How profound, we can can all learn from words like these.

                            We have one thing that unites us, our love of our cars.

                            We come from different walks of life with different ideas.

                            I relesh the times when I can join in with talk about the simplest things with regards our cars.

                            We are all not experts and we learn something new every day.

                            Ok I don't have much free time but I am willing to put my name forward for a role on the committee, I may not be the best person but if it means this club can continue then let's try.

                            I hope others feel the same way and I do and urge you to step up.

                            Adrian

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Constitution update 2017

                              I'm in as well then... more helpers means less to do each, but like Adrian I'm still employed (self employed) so time is scarce but I will make time.
                              - 9th owner of T693 SSC possibly a factory built Ford based V8 Sportster
                              - 4th owner of Q309 RNV, an early Cabrio built by Bob Copping, owned Doug & Liz Billings for 16 years
                              - 9th Custodian of JRR 929D, Triumph Vitesse based special Paul Moorehouse built prior to the Triumph Roadster kits.
                              - 8th owner of Roadster chassis number 2395. Now owned by Barry!
                              - Builder of chassis number 2325 (PKK 989M) in the mid 80's. Now owned by Eric & Lynne.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Constitution update 2017

                                Cheers matey.

                                Adrian

                                Comment

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