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Gas free MIG welding wire

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  • Gas free MIG welding wire

    I have run out of Argon/CO gas for my MIG.

    I am faced with either getting a BOC cylinder on rental at great expense. Or:

    A local welding supplies company have small Argon/CO cylinders (11 Ltr) for £110/five years up front rental and £20 per refill.

    Another local factor offers 20 Ltr for £70 deposit and £54 per refill. Amid other deals.

    Unable to decide, I called another local welding supplies firm who I have dealt with in the past. They no longer keep gas but offered me gas free MIG wire 0.8mm £40 for 5Kg. My solid MIG wire was getting low so I though it might just be a cheaper alternative, not wishing to divert Marlin funds to the Astra at this stage.

    I was very apprehensive because I had heard poor reports about gasless MIG. I checked it out and it seemed I might have to swap polarity. Normally the torch is + positive and the ground is negative, however I heard that flux cored wire requires the reverse, positive ground and negative torch. I tried it as standard and the results were poor, so I switched to polarity by delving in the power supply side of the welder, I know I should have had an adult to supervise but I couldn't find a sensible one!

    The result was a much improved weld, very controllable and uses very low settings on the welder. I was still uneasy about the task of welding up the sills on my Astra because they are pretty thin and badly rusty. Cut a long story short, the flux cored wire was very good, with a little practice I found it more controllable than the solid wire, even overhead I was able to completely fill holes larger than a two pence piece by stitching around the edges and building up the bead. I completely rebuilt part of the edge of the wing where the cill becomes the back wheel arch, so I am very happy, I learnt something positive today.

    Just wanted to pass it on. If you have a MIG, only weld occasionally and you don't want an expensive gas cylinder then try the gas free wire, just remember to switch the polarity. It's not quite as neat as solid wire but it buff's up well enough.
    Last edited by Robert in Cumbria; 15-01-13, 08:03 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Gas free MIG welding wire

    Hello Robert,
    That's interesting, I have found the gas less mig welding a real pain in the bum, especially using the cheap mig welders available, and the wire / flux soon picks up the damp. If you know someone with a large bottle of K5 etc, you could couple it up to yours and let the pressure equalize / topping yours up ? I believe that for general mig welding you can get away with any inert gas, I seem to remember a mate using Co2 ( Pub gas ) in a similar bottle to your small Argon bottle. I must say, you must be a man of infinite patience to fill a hole the size of a two pence piece !!

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    • #3
      Re: Gas free MIG welding wire

      Hello Harry, I had been warned that gasless wasn't easy but under pressure to get the car MOT'd without savaging the Marlin budget I though I would give it a try. As I say above once I had swapped the polarity I found it very good, not inclined to burn holes, and made a very neat job of filling holes, Not sure it's the ultimate solution but was pleased I gave it a try.

      I will give it a whirl on some box section soon once I get clear of my current batch of jobs. I am going to build a Sand Rover for the boys out of some 40mm box and an old Quad we have, for them to drive on the beach. Sort of after the look of a tiny Land Rover but with big tyres. I will try the gasless out on that, I should get a good idea once I have built the frame whether it's any good or not.

      I have a stack of big Argon and Argon/Co cylinders, I don't like Co because it splatters a lot but I may go with it anyway. Eventually I will get a proper Argon/Co cylinder but I need the Marlin on the road more right now.

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      • #4
        Re: Gas free MIG welding wire

        Renting my BOC cylinder costs me £78 a year before I buy any gas.
        So thinking of changing to direct puchase
        ....www.adamsgas.co.uk
        Or www.hobbyweld.co.uk
        Ben Caswell probably not the last word on anything here!!

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        • #5
          Re: Gas free MIG welding wire

          How much is a normal full size cylinder of ArgoShield these days Ben? There used to be a charge for the gas then one fixed charge per transaction.

          Would be interesting to know just for comparison. I tried to figure it out some time ago on the BOC website but gave up in frustration.

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          • #6
            Re: Gas free MIG welding wire

            Hi Robert,
            I might try this, how did you change Polarity - is it the manual? Thanks Roger

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            • #7
              Re: Gas free MIG welding wire

              I have just dug out the last price list Aug 2012 and I have got a headache trying to work out the sizes and charges.
              Argoshield light
              Small Shieldpack 6 £31.50
              Med Shielpack 12 £41,97
              Large .................. £46.90


              Plus Delivery £48.85 or collection £13.70 plus the rental and mine is only the medium size and then of course the V.A.T
              Ben Caswell probably not the last word on anything here!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Gas free MIG welding wire

                Originally posted by b.caswell View Post
                I have just dug out the last price list Aug 2012 and I have got a headache trying to work out the sizes and charges.
                Argoshield light
                Small Shieldpack 6 £31.50
                Med Shielpack 12 £41,97
                Large .................. £46.90


                Plus Delivery £48.85 or collection £13.70 plus the rental and mine is only the medium size and then of course the V.A.T
                My head is aching already!!!

                Many thanks for digging that out, however you do the sums it looks expensive at a glance.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Gas free MIG welding wire

                  Originally posted by RogerJohnson View Post
                  Hi Robert,
                  I might try this, how did you change Polarity - is it the manual? Thanks Roger
                  Hi Roger, It depends on the welder, some are provided with sockets or terminals to attach the return or ground lead and the wire feed. In my case a BOC Automaster 180 which I am told is a Cebora 180 I had to delve into the power supply and re-route the output from the rectifier. When I have a moment I plan to install two external DINse sockets and then it will be very easy.

                  Simply swap the ground lead with the wire feed lead, not a big deal, depending on the layout in the power side of the welder.


                  It makes all the difference.

                  As a rough guide with DC, which MIG is, 2/3 of the heat is at the positive + side and 1/3 is at the negative - side. Normally the wire is positive and the ground is negative this helps melt the wire, and prevents blowing holes in the job, however it seems with flux cored gasless wire it needs more heat in the job and less in the wire. There may be elements in the flux which makes the wire burn without the extra heat from the polarity. I did notice that I had to turn the settings right down to be able to make a half decent weld.

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