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  • I have a problem with the Triumph lock.

    I have fitted the new brake flexies from Rimmers to the callipers with new copper washers and to brackets I have welded to the suspension turrets exactly like the bolt on ones which come with the disk brake setup.

    Yesterday I adjusted the flexies so that they just cleared the wishbone and the rim of the wheel at each side when the wheel is turned that way. All this with the weight on the suspension. This morning I jacked the car up to fit the disks and out of curiosity tried the lock each way to check clearance of the flexies. They fouled on the wheel rims significantly at full lock each way. I have re adjusted them countless times but when I get good clearance raised from the floor, I loose it when the car is on the ground. Conversely if I get good clearance on the ground it rubs either on the upper suspension wishbones or the wheel rim.

    I am not completely surprised because of the extreme lock the Triumph suspension is capable of. However, I do need a reliable solution because it's an obvious fail and a very real safety issue. I have experienced total brake loss for just this reason in the past on a Land Rover straight after I rebuilt it.

    I see two possible solutions, neither of which really appeal. Firstly to fit ~1 inch spacers to the wheels, which would give me more room. Bearing in mind this is with standard Marina wheels, the offset with proper Triumph wheels might be better?

    Secondly perhaps, to fix some rubber around the upper wishbones where the brake flexies chafe the wishbones. The flexies do have wire springs to provide some protection already. This only happens on full lock and with the suspension off the floor. I don't plan to drive far in that condition. But I DO have to pass the MOT.

    Am I missing something?

    I don't have any photo's but I may be able to get one tomorrow if at helps.

  • #2
    Re: I have a problem with the Triumph lock.

    Any idea's Ben? Please!

    Bump
    Last edited by Robert in Cumbria; 12-11-12, 12:10 PM.

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    • #3
      Re: I have a problem with the Triumph lock.

      Ben may well correct me but the standard marina offset was 1/2"/13mm I think that herald wheels were 3/4"/19mm.
      MOC member since 05/97
      1984 Marlin Roadster SWB.
      1800TC, Unleaded ported head, stage 2 cam. Ford Type 9 gearbox, Dolomite Sprint rear axle fitted with MGF disc brakes.
      Three core radiator, Renault Clio vented front discs.
      The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

      Loads of Marlin Reference can be found documents here or there.

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      • #4
        Re: I have a problem with the Triumph lock.

        Originally posted by Robert in Cumbria View Post
        I have fitted the new brake flexies from Rimmers to the callipers with new copper washers and to brackets I have welded to the suspension turrets exactly like the bolt on ones which come with the disk brake setup.

        Yesterday I adjusted the flexies so that they just cleared the wishbone and the rim of the wheel at each side when the wheel is turned that way. All this with the weight on the suspension. This morning I jacked the car up to fit the disks and out of curiosity tried the lock each way to check clearance of the flexies. They fouled on the wheel rims significantly at full lock each way. I have re adjusted them countless times but when I get good clearance raised from the floor, I loose it when the car is on the ground. Conversely if I get good clearance on the ground it rubs either on the upper suspension wishbones or the wheel rim.

        I am not completely surprised because of the extreme lock the Triumph suspension is capable of. However, I do need a reliable solution because it's an obvious fail and a very real safety issue. I have experienced total brake loss for just this reason in the past on a Land Rover straight after I rebuilt it.

        I see two possible solutions, neither of which really appeal. Firstly to fit ~1 inch spacers to the wheels, which would give me more room. Bearing in mind this is with standard Marina wheels, the offset with proper Triumph wheels might be better?

        Secondly perhaps, to fix some rubber around the upper wishbones where the brake flexies chafe the wishbones. The flexies do have wire springs to provide some protection already. This only happens on full lock and with the suspension off the floor. I don't plan to drive far in that condition. But I DO have to pass the MOT.

        Am I missing something?

        I don't have any photo's but I may be able to get one tomorrow if at helps.
        Hi Robert, probably not the same but on my Sportster I fixed the brake llines like this...


        Another shot by marlinpeter, on Flickr


        Off side - right lock by marlinpeter, on Flickr

        It's passed 4 MOT's and an SVA like that, so maybe you could do something similar?

        It's just a single cable tie and a short piece of rubber fuel hose.

        ...peter

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        • #5
          Re: I have a problem with the Triumph lock.

          That might work Peter, thank you for the suggestion. I will take a look tomorrow.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: I have a problem with the Triumph lock.

            Spitfire caliper hose.jpgHi Robert,

            Are you using Herald/Spitfire 9" discs and type 12 calipers or Vitesse/GT6 9.7" Discs and P16 calipers.

            On both our cars here the flexy hose doesnt go direct to the caliperType P16, there is a short metal brake pipe from the caliper curling round to an angle bracket on the top caliper bolt this then connects to the flexy that runs forward and curls round to a twisted bracket on the top wishbone front mount thus keeping the hose away from the rim.
            On the type 12 the connection on the hose does goe straight into the caliper with a short union and crimp barrel but I fear the hoses you have may have a longer barrel which then make the hose too high or they may be too long. The hose should go in a S curling away from the rim and then connecting at the twisted bracket on the rear wishbone mount.
            Last edited by b_caswell; 12-11-12, 06:46 PM.
            Ben Caswell probably not the last word on anything here!!

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            • #7
              Re: I have a problem with the Triumph lock.

              The picture Ben posted is how mine are on my Hybrid (which is Triumph Front susp). Mine has braided S/Steel hoses.

              I have never had any issue with the hoses touching the wheel or wishbone even with my 6J wheels (no spacers either).

              Neil.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: I have a problem with the Triumph lock.

                Type 12 Ben, I should have mentioned it.

                I felt the hoses were a bit long but were ordered from Rimmers as type 12 hoses. They do take on a sideways 'S' form when the wheels are on full lock, there is about an inch of space between the rim of the wheel and the rear edge of the top wishbone at both sides equally, that is a very narrow space for the hose to occupy, leaving perhaps less than a quarter of an inch clearance at each side of the hose, in a place where things are pretty dynamic.

                The problem is the part of the hose which comes straight up from the calliper while the steering is turned to that side, the fold (curve?) in the hose comes well above the top wishbone into the narrow gap between the rim and rear edge of the wishbone.

                I will photograph tomorrow. Picture paints a thousand words!

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                • #9
                  Re: I have a problem with the Triumph lock.

                  A little nearer, I have bent the chassis side bracket down and away from the calliper to take up some of the slack which seems to have helped. Not totally convinced it's OK yet but again it's only on FULL lock and when the suspension is at it's lowest, i.e. jacked up.

                  Type 12 flexy.jpg

                  Too close?

                  Type 12 flexy rubbing.jpg

                  And after bending the bracket...

                  Type 12 flexy bent bracket.jpg

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                  • #10
                    Re: I have a problem with the Triumph lock.

                    That bracket on the tower holding the union is a bit of an odd one as normally its a twisted bracket on the top wishbone bolt. But its doing the job, I think it just needs bending down so it takes the hose away from the wheel a little bit more.
                    Ben Caswell probably not the last word on anything here!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: I have a problem with the Triumph lock.

                      It's hard to tell on the car let alone at a distance! I only had one 'proper' bracket, so I made two and welded them on rather than using the pivot bolts for the top wishbones. They are pretty strong and seem to bend OK. I will bend them a little more as you suggest. Actually the n/s is OK I think, it's only the o/s which worries me now, so it can be done.

                      I think now I should have located them a bit lower and further from the wheel but I will know better next time. The position of the hose is governed by the natural curve in the pipe and although I can twist the pipe at the chassis end, I can't do anything at the calliper end. That's where the short bit of brake pipe comes in handy. The tube seems to have a natural curve which kinda get's in the way sometimes.
                      Last edited by Robert in Cumbria; 13-11-12, 10:28 PM.

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