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  • Marina 1.8tc clutch lever position

    What should have been a simple job replacing the flexible pipe from my clutch master cylinder to the slave cylinder has turned into a bit of a saga.

    First of all, bleeding the system after the repair was impossible until I bought an EEzibleed kit that pressurises the master cylinder using tyre pressure, forcing fluid through the system and out of the slave bleed nipple along with a surprising amount of air bubbles. This makes bleeding a 10 minute job and has the advantage of filling the system with fresh brake fluid. I would recommend this at £18 and I will do my brake system when I've sorted out my mess up with this job.

    The problem - I am now struggling to get the clutch working as the clutch actuator lever seems to have slipped out of position when the pressure was relieved. I know their is a spring clip on the back of the lever that can break over time but believe this shouldn't stop it sitting in the correct position on the ball pivot. It was ok before I started meddling, of course. Can anyone please give me any advice on this? If anyone has a picture showing the correct position of the lever, from inside and / or outside the bellhousing this would really help. I am hoping this can be fixed without removing the bellhousing and gearbox etc. (partly because I was hoping to take the car to the Lake District this weekend) and my (flawed) logic tells me that it lost its position without any force so should be able to be put back similarly. There again I am one of those dreaded Internet Mechanics!

    Thanks.
    Roadster MKII LWB. Built 1988. Marina 1.8TC based. B Series 1950cc engine fitted with twin SU HS4 carburetors and unleaded, big valve head. 4 core Austin Maxi radiator. All Marina 1.8TC running gear including 4 speed gearbox. Minilite style 15"wheels fitted with tall tyres to increase gearing for more relaxed cruising.

  • #2
    Re: Marina 1.8tc clutch lever position

    There is not a lot that can really go wrong, the spring at the back is essentially an anti rattle device though it does hold the lever in position.
    When you bled the system, was the bleed nipple at the top of the slave cylinder, otherwise no amount of bleeding without an easybleed (I prefer the vacuum one that sucks from the bleed nipple) will get the last bit of air out.

    There is always an outside possibility that the lever has failed, but you have done nothing unusual to bring that about.
    MOC member since 05/97
    1984 Marlin Roadster SWB.
    1800TC, Unleaded ported head, stage 2 cam. Ford Type 9 gearbox, Dolomite Sprint rear axle fitted with MGF disc brakes.
    Three core radiator, Renault Clio vented front discs.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

    Loads of Marlin Reference can be found documents here or there.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Marina 1.8tc clutch lever position

      Thanks Steve.

      Yes, the bleed nipple was at the top and I am sure all the air is out. I have good pedal feel and no leaks at the slave cylinder so I am pretty sure the hydraulics side is sorted. As you say, I have done nothing to cause the lever to break, I only released the pressure which seems to have caused it to lose position.

      I know I am cheeky but I don't suppose you have a photograph looking down at the slave cylinder on your Marlin or a Marina (I know you are an active and valued member of FastMarinaMagazine ) so I can have another go at it tonight with an idea of where the lever should be.

      Thanks
      Simon
      Roadster MKII LWB. Built 1988. Marina 1.8TC based. B Series 1950cc engine fitted with twin SU HS4 carburetors and unleaded, big valve head. 4 core Austin Maxi radiator. All Marina 1.8TC running gear including 4 speed gearbox. Minilite style 15"wheels fitted with tall tyres to increase gearing for more relaxed cruising.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Marina 1.8tc clutch lever position

        Simon
        I had a clutch slave failure on my old 1.7 Ital powered Roadster and just happened to take a pic afterwards

        Don't know how similar they are, but hope it helps you

        Rgds DC
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Marina 1.8tc clutch lever position

          Taken during conversion to Type 9 Gearbox and adaptor plate.
          But the clutch stayed the same.

          3043203823_f5694682d8_z.jpg3043204969_b9a7b1069a_z.jpg
          MOC member since 05/97
          1984 Marlin Roadster SWB.
          1800TC, Unleaded ported head, stage 2 cam. Ford Type 9 gearbox, Dolomite Sprint rear axle fitted with MGF disc brakes.
          Three core radiator, Renault Clio vented front discs.
          The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

          Loads of Marlin Reference can be found documents here or there.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Marina 1.8tc clutch lever position

            Originally posted by dcunn View Post
            Simon
            I had a clutch slave failure on my old 1.7 Ital powered Roadster and just happened to take a pic afterwards

            Don't know how similar they are, but hope it helps you

            Rgds DC
            Only difference on a 1.7 is that they fitted a long bleed hose up to a nipple mounted at the rear of the engine.
            MOC member since 05/97
            1984 Marlin Roadster SWB.
            1800TC, Unleaded ported head, stage 2 cam. Ford Type 9 gearbox, Dolomite Sprint rear axle fitted with MGF disc brakes.
            Three core radiator, Renault Clio vented front discs.
            The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

            Loads of Marlin Reference can be found documents here or there.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Marina 1.8tc clutch lever position

              I have just rebuilt my clutch and also found it really difficult to bleed the clutch slave, even with the nipple up-most and a vacuum pump. It just seemed to take a long time however it got there in the end. The bar in the slave cylinder is just a push fit iirc and even if the whole thing dismantled itself it should all just push back together. Here are the workshop manual diagrams,....

              mcyl1gif.GIF

              scyl1.GIF

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Marina 1.8tc clutch lever position

                In the past I had two Marina pick-up's (very early 1100cc 10cwt and late 1300cc 7 cwt) and the bleed nipple was on the top of the engine ! There was a red tube coming from the slave and attached to the (I think) the rocker cover bolt. This was a factory fitment but I don't know if it was just the commercials or if the cars had the same. Saved all the crawling around under the vehicle.

                Paul H

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Marina 1.8tc clutch lever position

                  Sidon

                  I once had this issue with my old Roadster. I make a longer rod from the slave cylinder to the fork out of a hard punch and it worked a treat providing your slave cylinder and the clutch is ok.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Marina 1.8tc clutch lever position

                    Thanks to all. The photos really helped and I am pretty sure that the lever is now in the correct position - I could just about feel it slip into place on the pivot and could hear it starting to depress the clutch cover springs when I pushed it back.

                    But - still no clutch! When the pedal is pressed I can see the clutch lever moving, albeit not very far, maybe 12mm at the push rod. The car will still not go into gear with the engine running, though.

                    My next thought is that I have used the wrong type of pipe. I work for a manufacturer of site equipment and I used some pipe that we use in the braking system on a small site dumper. Whilst this is re-enforced and obviously takes some stick in its usual application, I am wondering if their is too much 'give' in the pipe which then takes just enough of the force out of the small volume of fluid movement in the marina clutch to prevent it disengaging the release bearing.

                    The 2 pipes look like this : ( the orange pipe is what was fitted and is made from a fairly hard plastic)

                    Thanks also Cabriobob. My original reason for changing the pipe was that the clutch was sometimes not quite disengaging and, in my great wisdom, I thought this was due to a slight weep on one of the joints causing a loss of pressure / air in the system. When I am back to where I started I will look at a slightly longer rod. How much longer did you make yours?
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by Sidon; 01-05-14, 08:43 AM.
                    Roadster MKII LWB. Built 1988. Marina 1.8TC based. B Series 1950cc engine fitted with twin SU HS4 carburetors and unleaded, big valve head. 4 core Austin Maxi radiator. All Marina 1.8TC running gear including 4 speed gearbox. Minilite style 15"wheels fitted with tall tyres to increase gearing for more relaxed cruising.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Marina 1.8tc clutch lever position

                      Having fitted a concentric clutch slave to my type 9, I would not have chosen the black pipe as it looks like it would be okay to go from remote reservoir to master cylinder, but not to go from master cylinder to slave. I use stainless flexipipe PTFE on the pressurised side as there is no give in the wall when pressure is applied. Also I have used it in place of rubber brake flexipipe without any problems. It could be that the black pipe you are using is expanding like a balloon and so losing pressure to the slave.
                      Remember soft no good, firm even better.
                      Phil

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Marina 1.8tc clutch lever position

                        I seem to recall that there were various reports when I built my Roadster (late 80's) of some builders finding that the clutch actuating lever had bent (the big pressed-steel lever with that pesky clip on the back), thus reducing the leverage applied to the clutch release bearing.
                        Marlin Roadster, LWB...1860 B Series + Ford Type 9
                        Renault Espace 54mm front calipers, vented discs, cycle wings and adjustable tie-bars.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Marina 1.8tc clutch lever position

                          I wouldn't be tempted by the longer rod idea despite the fact I know other have tried this method successfully. Manufacturers spend a lot of time and money to get these things right .
                          My guess is that the master cylinder is probably at fault in that the system is not holding pressure. The pressure plate is another source if the 'operating ' fingers are worn/bent then the pressure plate may not fully disengage from the drive plate. Just my thoughts!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Marina 1.8tc clutch lever position

                            Thanks again. Interesting stuff and good learning for me. I am changing the flexi pipe tonight for a much harder walled material. I may even put the old one back if its long enough after I cut 20mm off each end to get it off in the first place! Idiot. Slave cylinder seals are good with no leakage past but, if this doesn't work, next job will be master cylinder seals. Can you still get them? I guess that leakage past the seals on the master cylinder is harder to diagnose as presumably the fluid just leaks back past the seal into the reservoir when it is worn.

                            The extended push rod is also an interesting topic. A bit extra length is sometimes desirable! Maybe if the clutch lever is prone to slight bending over the 45 years it has been in place, a slightly extended rod would 'take up the slack' so to speak. I know that mine sounded as though the clutch plate wasn't quite disengaging which will be caused by one of the factors we have discussed. Just got to work my way through them.
                            Roadster MKII LWB. Built 1988. Marina 1.8TC based. B Series 1950cc engine fitted with twin SU HS4 carburetors and unleaded, big valve head. 4 core Austin Maxi radiator. All Marina 1.8TC running gear including 4 speed gearbox. Minilite style 15"wheels fitted with tall tyres to increase gearing for more relaxed cruising.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Marina 1.8tc clutch lever position

                              seal kits are often available on ebay for under a tenner but a whole master cylinder can be found for not much more
                              eBay item number:
                              251520119322

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