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Thread: Mark II – Engine woes

  1. #11 Re: Mark II – Engine woes 
    club member Club Member stevejgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyf View Post
    Can't you take an injector out to see if it produces a jet of fuel? I'm sure I remember seeing Ed China do it Wheeler Dealers!
    That would be my guess. You say the filter was changed, was it virtually blocked? When did the engine last run?
    MOC member since 05/97
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    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

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  2. #12 Re: Mark II – Engine woes 
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    Gosh lots of good suggestions.
    I don’t know much about the engine. I bought the kit from somebody who was unable to finish it. Most components are from an ‘85 Granada. The engine was bought separately and I was told it was a much better engine than the original. It all seems to be good but I really want to hear it run. It certainly has not run for over 10 years. Ford confirmed that it was first fitted to a car in January 1989. The ECU is a Ford EEC-IV.
    The distributor was loosely fitted to the engine. I tried refitting it as described in the manual. I tried to see if the gears could be incorrectly meshed but it is obvious if it’s wrong. The Haynes manual has dire warnings about disturbing the dizzy. They state that if it is changed a ford dealer must use a Self Test Automatic Readout (STAR) tester to set it up. I have also read that you can remove the throttle pot connector to create an error condition (code 60) putting the ignition into a flat fixed timing mode (the SPOUT signal is removed). The base timing can then be set to 12 degrees BTDC. But the engine must be running first.
    I removed the plugs and rigged up a pressure gauge to cylinder 1. I hand cranked to find the compression stroke. This confirmed that the rotor arm was pointing to plug lead 1. You are right about the dizzy it has the ignition module attached. There is an inverted cup with 6 tabs. The tab adjacent to the detector when cylinder 1 is at TDC is half the size of the rest. I presume the ECU uses this signal for all timing.
    I replaced the plugs and leads and used a strobe to set the timing. It is not clear from Haynes what this should be. With everything connected using the starter motor I set the timing to various positions from 0 to 15 BTDC. No signs of life whatsoever!
    Thanks for the warning about deaths. Overheating is not going to be a problem for a while.
    I’m not quite sure about your fuel rail connection question but I hope the picture answers it. Incidentally I found the same fuel regulator number as you but the unit itself has the number 0280 160 268. The gauge thread did not fit the adapter very well and had a small leak. I have fixed that and the pressure is still 30 psi after 2 hours.
    Andy; the fuel rail is common to all the injectors in this set up and you can’t run them separately. In fact it is pretty much impossible to do anything to them. I have managed to take the connector of the injector to cylinder 3 and used a bulb to confirm that the ECU is sending a pulse to it. I could not check the timing.
    As Phil says I should get a bang as I have a spark and the ECU is powering the injectors. But I can’t smell fuel and the plugs aren’t wet. What is my next step?
    Why on earth did I start this darned project!
    Paul
    Based on the Isle of Wight.
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  3. #13 Re: Mark II – Engine woes 
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    I thought you might like to see a picture of the fuel tank.
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  4. #14 Re: Mark II – Engine woes 
    club member Club Member andyf's Avatar
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    it'll be worth it once you get it going.
    Mk2 SWB Marina Roadster with a 2.0L Pinto built in 1986
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  5. #15 Re: Mark II – Engine woes 
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    I woke
    Last edited by philcoyle; 03-08-2016 at 12:33 PM.
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  6. #16 Re: Mark II – Engine woes 
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    Thanks Phil, it really helps to have somebody to check I’m looking at the right things. As you say there is a lot to look at there. I have to do fencing today (putting up a fence) so I doubt I will get much done today. One thing I might try is changing the ECU. The car came with two I studied them very carefully and could see no difference. It also had two engine looms. I checked both of them and, without taking them apart, I believe them to be the same. As you say Ford are keen on “continuous development” or changing things wily nily so there could be a difference.
    On the injectors; the V6 divides them into two groups of three serving left and right cylinder banks. Ford numbers the cylinders starting at the front 1 to 3 on the rhs 4 to 6 on the lhs. The injectors are pretty inaccessible under the plenum chamber. The only connector I can access without taking things apart is the right hand rear (number 3). The connector has just two wires one is connected to +12V when the ignition is on. The other goes to the ECU. The circuit diag does not show the body as being grounded. I guess that the injector is a simple coil magnet. I wish I had a spare so I could see if it operated. I do know that, by poking wires into the connector, a simple light flashes when engine is turning over. So why do see no petrol in any cylinder? Could I have burnt both banks out somehow? I will check the resistance today.
    Too late to save my hair.
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  7. #17 Re: Mark II – Engine woes 
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    There is no ground as such,
    Last edited by philcoyle; 03-08-2016 at 12:34 PM.
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  8. #18 Re: Mark II – Engine woes 
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    Blasted thing!
    I have changed the ECU – no different. I checked the injector 14.3 ohms which is fine.
    What now? I wonder if connecting up the light is misleading me. The ECU varies the pulse to adjust the fuelling is it giving too short a pulse. Could the ECU be grounding sufficiently to light up the light but not to open the injector? If so why?
    There a couple of mystery wires coming out of the ECU.
    Pin 30 brown and white is the auto inhibit. I have connected this to +12V. I also tried grounding it.
    Pin 4 Brown and yellow is not shown in the circuit diagram. It reads 5V. It could be the engine check light.
    Pin 17 brown and green connects to the diagnostic connector and to a page that is not in the manual.
    Does anybody know exactly what these pins do? There are lots of references on the web, including many US vehicles, but none match mine exactly.
    Paul
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  9. #19 Re: Mark II – Engine woes 
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    You should
    Last edited by philcoyle; 03-08-2016 at 12:34 PM.
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  10. #20 Re: Mark II – Engine woes 
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    I attach a picture of the injector. Grey?
    The fuel pump is certainly working as I can see the pressure in the fuel rail.
    The circuit diagram in the Haynes manual is not the best. The wiring diagram is for the 2.8 Litre, mine is 2.9. Pin 17 is shown as going to a sheet, 24, that is not included. Pin 4 is not shown at all.
    The schematic for EEC-IV pin 30 auto inhibit wanders over 6 pages. I will attach a scan of the switch. The auto inhibit select wiper looks like it is connected to the live wire. I now realise it is actually connected to the body of the switch which is shown as earthed at the bottom.
    I am sure my pin 4 is different to yours as the engine loom has not been taken apart. I can find thousands of pin outs for EEC-IV most of them for American cars or later versions. Pin 4 is listed as ignition diagnostic monitor, check engine light, ignition control module, ignition coil negative term, signal from ignition system and EDIS Module. My pin 4 is connected to a chip 012G S832, see picture. Does anybody know what that chip is? The pin is at 0.2V but I don’t know if that is correct. As it is not pulled up to 12V I doubt that it is an inhibit input. As it is not showing as an error in the ECU I don’t think it is a sender input. It could be an output.
    I have rigged up a led and switch to the diagnostic connector pin 17, 48 & ground. You can count the flashes to get the diagnostic codes. I got code 11 no fault. Just to check I tried disconnecting a couple of senders and got the appropriate fault codes.
    I have rigged up an LED to show when the injectors are open and put the right hand bank spark plugs so they can be seen. I took a video of it. The video is 25 frames per minute; that is a frame every 40 milliseconds (ms). I can work out that the starter turns the engine at 36 rpm. I can see the plugs sparking in the right order. The injector led lights but mostly only in one frame so about 40ms, which could be ok. Photo attached showing led lit and a spark on cylinder 1 plug.
    I did notice that when trying the starter after some time I got no led or spark. But it always seems to work second time. This is a puzzle so I tried with the auto inhibit disconnected to prevent starting. The behaviour was exactly the same. So I guess that root of the problem is that the ECU does not want to allow it to start.
    I have measured the voltage on every pin and all are in the right range (with the exception of pin 4.) So what is it the ECU upset about?
    I can find absolutely nothing wrong with this freaking engine. Except it won’t start!
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