Click here to sign up  Click here to go to the galleries  Click here to go to the code of conduct  Click here to go to the video page  Click here to go to the SW Meets page

Thread: Millie antiroll bar

Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 73
  1. #41 Re: Millie antiroll bar 
    Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    437
    Quote Originally Posted by cabrioman View Post
    Paul did you look at the information Mike Garner put on the forum after he had his cabrio set up at a suspension specialist in lincoln area. I think he ended up dialing in around 4 - 6 degree castor, which involved cutting down the compression strut to get to that.
    Thanks John,

    I did read it when it was posted but I’m glad you reminded me.

    The page is here:
    https://www.marlinownersclub.com/for...io-Build/page3

    He uses 6°. I really wanted to check the feel of low angles. I think I could machine the strut down 4 mm to get 6° but if take off 9 to get 3° the locknut will be off the thread. I’m looking a combination of machining down and slotting the mounting holes. Not a long term solution and will devalue the resale value of the struts.
    Paul
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #42 Re: Millie antiroll bar 
    frequent forum contributor Club Member greyV8pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Exeter
    Posts
    1,190
    Quote Originally Posted by milliemarlin View Post
    Thanks John,

    I did read it when it was posted but I’m glad you reminded me.

    The page is here:
    https://www.marlinownersclub.com/for...io-Build/page3

    He uses 6°. I really wanted to check the feel of low angles. I think I could machine the strut down 4 mm to get 6° but if take off 9 to get 3° the locknut will be off the thread. I’m looking a combination of machining down and slotting the mounting holes. Not a long term solution and will devalue the resale value of the struts.
    Paul
    I wouldn’treccommend much below 6deg or it will be too “twitchy”. Compbrake sell the arb end brackets separately, so you could always buy a new pair if it enabled you to sell on the compression struts! Peter.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #43 Re: Millie antiroll bar 
    Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    437
    Quote Originally Posted by greyV8pete View Post
    I wouldn’treccommend much below 6deg or it will be too “twitchy”. Compbrake sell the arb end brackets separately, so you could always buy a new pair if it enabled you to sell on the compression struts! Peter.
    The strut has been sacrificed. I probably wouldn’t get much for it anyway and I couldn’t give it to a Marlin owner.

    As I was sawing 10mm off the end I thought at 3° I was probably going to find out why rally drivers mark the centre position on the steering wheel. In the event it wasn’t too bad – more on my findings later. On three degrees the locking nut had less than two threads to grip on but there is a second at the back and there was little risk of things coming apart on such a short journey.

    I have set the garage up like a pit. I take her out for a spin round the track and return where a 12 man crew in yellow and black fire suits change the caster angle and reset the toe in. The whole process takes 7m 23s but we are getting that time down. Oops I slipped into a fantasy world for a moment. With just me in the garage it takes a while to run a test.
    Paul
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #44 Re: Millie antiroll bar 
    Club Member dcunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,347
    If you make a video of your fantasy game I'll buy a copy

    LoL

    Good Luck, wish I had your patience/persistence

    Rgds DC
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #45 Re: Millie antiroll bar 
    frequent forum contributor Club Member kahawi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Bideford, Devon, UK
    Posts
    69
    If it involves, preferably using only two pieces of string, a plank of wood and a school rule, can you please explain how I can measure camber, at home in the garage?

    Advice much appreciated, Colin B.
    Marlin Hunter R500 ULA 1997 Ford-Based Hunter with 2.3 DOHC L4 engine, chassis/kit No. 157
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #46 Re: Millie antiroll bar 
    frequent forum contributor Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Leeds
    Posts
    282
    Take a look at this Paul

    https://www.rhocar.org/index.php?/fo...comment=246683

    Could this be the solution, using a cut arb to create a compression strut that retains the rubber bush on the TCA but provides castor adjustment. I think I would have preferred to put a male thread on the Arb that took a female collar and rod end like the compbrake struts you had fitted.

    Maybe it could solve the chassis stress issues seen on the Cabrios, the curve in the strut would reduce the transfer forces into the chassis aided by retaining the original oem bush on the TCA.

    The orientation of the Cabrio arb mount would be even better as the rose joint would be in the vertical plane as opposed to horizontal as on the example shown in the link.
    Last edited by cabrioman; 31-03-2019 at 03:31 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #47 Re: Millie antiroll bar 
    Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    437
    Quote Originally Posted by cabrioman View Post
    Take a look at this Paul

    https://www.rhocar.org/index.php?/fo...comment=246683

    Could this be the solution, using a cut arb to create a compression strut that retains the rubber bush on the TCA but provides castor adjustment. I think I would have preferred to put a male thread on the Arb that took a female collar and rod end like the compbrake struts you had fitted.

    Maybe it could solve the chassis stress issues seen on the Cabrios, the curve in the strut would reduce the transfer forces into the chassis aided by retaining the original oem bush on the TCA.

    The orientation of the Cabrio arb mount would be even better as the rose joint would be in the vertical plane as opposed to horizontal as on the example shown in the link.
    Thanks again John,
    It’s very interesting to see how others have tackled this problem.

    I had not realised the ARBs are hardened I find that surprising. You would expect them to be tough not hard.

    I have considered cutting my ARB in a similar way turning the cut off end down and adding an external 22m thread to match that of the compression strut, as you suggest. That would allow the use of Ford bushes at the TCA end and rose joint at the chassis end and would include the compression strut adjustment. I decided against it because removing the bar between the two sides is possibly part of the original problem. I also felt the contoured compression strut would twist in the rubber bush and not keep the rose joint in the mid position which could make it rattle and possibly wear. Finally I think the rubber ARB bushes will dissipate the energy in a better way than the hard rose joint.

    You are right to say this is a potential in this fix but I think I am reconciled to having an ARB.
    Paul
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #48 Re: Millie antiroll bar 
    frequent forum contributor Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Leeds
    Posts
    282
    Yep I may take a look at reverting to an ARB, but to be honest I tend to feel the problem is probably more related to the positioning of the ARB mount on the Cabrio chassis. Its design potentially allows the mount to pivot around the chassis leg, as the inner corner is sort of floating inside the chassis line.

    I think the work you have already done to beef up the chassis will have already resolved any further problems regardless of whether you go with an ARB, split ARB or Compression Struts.

    There are probably hundreds of Sierras and Escorts out there using struts given the number of companies manufacturing strut kits and Ford themselves fitted struts to the Sierra on the Cosworth WRC cars, so I am sure it is all about the strength or lack of in the chassis and brackets.

    I wait with interest to see what you end up with, I agree an ARB with adjustable Caster would be great, even if the adjustment was by spacers on the end shoulders.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #49 Re: Millie antiroll bar 
    Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    437
    Quote Originally Posted by kahawi View Post
    If it involves, preferably using only two pieces of string, a plank of wood and a school rule, can you please explain how I can measure camber, at home in the garage?

    Advice much appreciated, Colin B.
    Pretty basic. As I can’t change it I just look at it and think why one side is positive and one side is negative. You could mark it up with calibrations. Note that camber changes as you steer.

    Img_8707s.jpgImg_8709s.jpg


    My castor gauge is a little better.
    Img_8697s.jpgImg_8698s.jpg

    Paul
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #50 Re: Millie antiroll bar 
    Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    437
    I refitted the compression struts and set the castor to 3°. I did a little local circuit that tested a range of conditions. I then turned the adjuster through one whole turn which makes is about 1.5° change to the castor angle. Repeating this process for 3, 4.5, 6, 7.5 degrees. I checked the toe in after each change adjusting as required.

    First some general observations about the difference between the ARB and Compression Strut (CS): Over rough surfaces, like a cattle grid, the CS transmits every vibration. Over undulating surfaces where only one wheel is going over a bump the CS scores absorbing more of the bump. I can see no discernible difference in roll. The Cabrio has very little roll.

    Over a range of road conditions, smooth tarmac, heavily patched, patched and undulating roads there was very little change between castor angles the on driving experiences. A rough road is just as rough at 3° as it is at 7.5°. No jumps were made.

    3°: I was quite surprised that this had quite a good feel. Very light. The self centring was still there. The steering has a progressive feel to it where there resistance is almost nonexistent straight ahead but increases as the steering wheel is turned. Even with this little castor the self centring is strong on full lock. When the steering wheel is about 30° either side of centre the wheel will not centre itself. At high speed (60mph) there is a weak feel of the straight ahead position. On one fairly sharp reasonably fast corner I felt some evidence of oversteer. I felt that in the wet this could become a problem. I can see that a rally driver, who is totally focused on the drive ahead, would be comfortable with this angle.

    4.5°: The feel at this angle was close to that at 3° except the feedback was slightly stronger. This suited a relaxed style of driving imparting a confidence and solidity to the drive. I would be quite happy driving the car with this set up.

    6°: This gave an even stronger more solid feel to the drive. It was close to the feel of my power assisted faux by four. The steering still did not self centre close to straight ahead but there was a definite sense when off centre. The difference between this and 4.5 was simply a greater feeling of solidity.

    7.5°: This too was a perfectly reasonable drive but the steering felt heavier without really improving the overall feel. I would still be happy driving this car.

    I had planned to make additional tests to try to pinpoint the exact point at which the drive is sweetest. If I was on a racing circuit consistently driving the same route close to the ragged edge I might be able to detect small changes. On my highway based test route so many other variables are present that it would be a waste of time.

    The drive at any point from 4.5 to 7.5 is excellent; one heck of a lot better than the drive at 12°. I lived with odd castor angles of about 17° one side and 8° the other that I certainly will be very happy with 6°. The unmodified CS was holding the wheels at 8° and I was more than happy with that.

    All of which is a very long winded way of getting to the conclusion that 6° is my target castor.

    I should have just copied Mike.
    Paul
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •