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Thread: 10cwt van axle ...

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  1. #1 10cwt van axle ... 
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    Just bought one from eBay.

    Overhauling it with new seals/brakes/etc.
    Wheel cylinders are only 5/8" bore BTW. NOT actually the same as some TRs and Morgans.

    There is an oil drain hole at lower part of tin cover under backplate - both mine were apparently blocked. [It was designed to keep leaking oil off the brake shoes! - and allow escaping oil to leak down the back of the backplate.]


    Hub nuts are damn tight! (150 > 180lb.ft.) - as they hold the bearing inner race.

    They are an odd size - 1 61/64" AF ... But according to an American MGA site they are actually 1 15/16"AF nuts.
    First measurement equates to about 49.6mm
    Stamped L/H and R/H for direction of threads. (L/H nut is on nearside of axle). Tried a 50mm socket BUT found socket was 6-sided and nuts are 8-sided ... Allegedly a 12-sided socket will fit - but its O/D must fit within the hub.

    ETA

    Rimmer Bros appear to be slightly confused - or my axle is odd !

    They sell a new hub nut with left-hand thread .... but state clearly it is 'for the right-hand side' ?
    Mine is the opposite. i.e. l/h thread on nearside or left-hand of the axle. ( Theory would be that if the washer/nut does work loose then anti-clockwise rotation of wheel should tighten it up.?)

    Wheelnuts on van are 7/16" UNF.

    Quite common to find handbrake pivots have worn 'divots' in the backplates. Will MIGweld up and resurface mine. Lubricate with Coppergrease ?

    ETA Noticed a probable typo in Leyland's MGB manual. It says diff side gear washers are "Tufnal"? Never heard of it - but I have heard of Tufnol.

    Extra ETA.
    You might be wise [whilst the hubs are stripped] to knock the studs out and gently file (fine) or stone the flange face. Found mine had several raised points that would create potential leakage issues with even a new O-ring and .010" paper gasket.
    Last edited by marlin1984; 13-09-2019 at 11:30 AM.
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  2. #2 Re: 10cwt van axle ... 
    frequent forum contributor Club Member stevejgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marlin1984 View Post
    Just bought one from eBay.

    Overhauling it with new seals/brakes/etc.
    Wheel cylinders are only 5/8" bore BTW.


    Hub nuts are damn tight!

    These nuts are somewhat confusingly stamped "L/H" and "RH". That refers to axle side NOT thread.


    Left [near] side of axle is a right-hand thread, right [off] side is a left-hand thread.
    They are an odd size - 1 61/64" AF ...

    ETA Noticed a probable typo in Leyland's MGB manual. It says diff side gear washers are "Tufnal"? Never heard of it - but I have heard of Tufnol.

    The 10CWT axle used in Marina Commercials, was to my knowledge, and that could be wrong, was never used in an MGB, so I am confused!

    i went the opposite direction, a 3.45 Dolomite Sprint axle, intended for road use, and top speed, when coupled to a tuned ‘B’ series and a type 9 0.82 5th gear ratio overdrive gearbox.

    Every indication was that I was heading for a 2.0 Zetec conversion, but life got in the way!

    One day I might get back to my stash of 10cwt axles and do some research, but they are in the UK, and I am in Spain.
    MOC member since 05/97
    1984 Marlin Roadster SWB.
    1800TC, Unleaded ported head, stage 2 cam. Ford Type 9 gearbox, Dolomite Sprint rear axle fitted with MGF disc brakes.
    Three core radiator, Renault Clio vented front discs.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

    Loads of Marlin Reference can be found documents here or there.
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  3. #3 Re: 10cwt van axle ... 
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    Sorry to confuse you Steve!

    I was researching the size and thread of the hub-nuts on 'B-series type axles' when I came across the typo "Tufnal" in the MGB file.

    Agreed - nothing directly to do with the van axle - but I will check it for similar TUFNOL washers.
    Last edited by marlin1984; 13-09-2019 at 11:31 AM.
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  4. #4 Re: 10cwt van axle ... 
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    Oil seals in hubs are :- originals marked "GACO" (which was George Angus and Co. ), "ANGUS" and "IND 51031".

    Replacements rear hub seals via fleabay (danbury-hydraulics sell a full axle set of seals and gaskets > 273896822573) are marked just with very faint size numbers - "49.21 69.85 9.52" [ID, OD and thickness in mm] plus an image of a key.

    GACO originals have about 6 minor "ribs" leading to inner lip of seal. Replacements just have the one main inner lip - time will tell if they work as well.

    [Rimmer's and Leacy Classics 'banjo' MGB axle seals are GHS211s by the way]

    FWIW 'Original' O/S double-row bearing is marked > SKF ITALY M 4208 ATU9
    (4208 search on fleabay throws up a "double row bearing" - but confusingly the illustration looks like a single row marked with a "Dunlop" brand [!!!] ...

    ETA
    The N/S hub has a different bearing within - marked "RHP ENGLAND MT 4208" (inner race is also marked 4208) RHP was of course Ransome, Hoffmann and Pollard ... one-time-huge UK bearing manufacturers.


    Not sure which is original - maybe Morris used more than one supplier.
    Luckily both my bearings seem fine.
    Last edited by marlin1984; 13-09-2019 at 11:33 AM.
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  5. #5 Re: 10cwt van axle ... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by marlin1984 View Post
    Oil seals in hubs are :- originals marked "GACO" (which was George Angus and Co. ), "ANGUS" and "IND 51031".

    Replacements via fleabay (danbury-hydraulics sell an axle set 273896822573) are marked just with faint size numbers.

    GACO originals have about 6 minor "ribs" leading to inner lip of seal.


    Replacements just have the one main inner lip.

    Time will tell if they work as well.

    [Rimmer's and Leacy Classics banjo MGB axle seals are GHS211s by the way]

    GACO seals live on in the form of Orinoco Bearings in Leeds.
    I somehow doubt that they will have sufficient accurate records, but may be worth a try.
    MOC member since 05/97
    1984 Marlin Roadster SWB.
    1800TC, Unleaded ported head, stage 2 cam. Ford Type 9 gearbox, Dolomite Sprint rear axle fitted with MGF disc brakes.
    Three core radiator, Renault Clio vented front discs.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

    Loads of Marlin Reference can be found documents here or there.
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  6. #6 Re: 10cwt van axle ... 
    frequent forum contributor Club Member stevejgreen's Avatar
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    I have been looking for my A55/60 workshop manual, but it hasn’t turned up.

    From memory it’s no different from the Ital/Marina workshop manual, with regard to the back axle, but it may well be worth grabbing one from eBay. It’s likely to maintain its value.
    MOC member since 05/97
    1984 Marlin Roadster SWB.
    1800TC, Unleaded ported head, stage 2 cam. Ford Type 9 gearbox, Dolomite Sprint rear axle fitted with MGF disc brakes.
    Three core radiator, Renault Clio vented front discs.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

    Loads of Marlin Reference can be found documents here or there.
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  7. #7 Re: 10cwt van axle ... 
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    Steve
    Are you saying that the A60( Austin Cambridge) rear hub seal is the same as on the 10cwt vans axle? I ask because I have those seals in packets and are they also then the same as on the Marina Axle?
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  8. #8 Re: 10cwt van axle ... 
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    Btw I have an A60 haynes and intermotor workshop manuals if you need any scans emailed to you as a pdf?
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  9. #9 Re: 10cwt van axle ... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ye Ol Ripper View Post
    Btw I have an A60 haynes and intermotor workshop manuals if you need any scans emailed to you as a pdf?
    Scans of related manuals are always useful and welcomed, especially when I cannot find my originals. Stevejgreen@btopenworld.com.

    As far as I am aware the 10CWT Marina rear axle was fitted to Marina commercials only, it is simply a version of the same rear axle fitted to the A55/60 vehicles, I am guessing that the spring hangers and minor brackets are different. Without my parts books, I cannot confirm anything.

    Marina/Ital Saloons and Estates use a different rear axle all together, with no other compatibility, apart from internal parts that match small Triumphs, the closest match being the original Triumph Dolomite (not the Sprint), which again is a different animal.

    Back in the UK in the attic of my garage I have several rear axles sourced from Marina 10CWT Commercials, complete with tags indicating the chassis numbers of the vehicles that I obtained them from.
    It was my intention to research as much as possible from them, checking sizes and parts compatibility but life got in the way, and I moved to Spain.

    Hopefully, Brexit permitting, I will not return to the UK. If I do, then maybe my research will continue, if I don’t, if my executors have the inclination, the rear axles will appear for sale.
    MOC member since 05/97
    1984 Marlin Roadster SWB.
    1800TC, Unleaded ported head, stage 2 cam. Ford Type 9 gearbox, Dolomite Sprint rear axle fitted with MGF disc brakes.
    Three core radiator, Renault Clio vented front discs.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

    Loads of Marlin Reference can be found documents here or there.
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  10. #10 Re: 10cwt van axle ... 
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    Useful info. regards George Angus. Thanks.

    Ye Ol Ripper
    The seals I have (from danbury-hydraulics and sold as for "MGA, MGB (banjo axle), MAGNETTE, A55, A60 etc; rear axle seal set.") ... are exactly the same size as the 10cwt van ones. [ I have fitted one today ...]

    The Marina car ones will probably be different.

    " ... it is simply a version ..."
    BTW one MAJOR visual difference is that the Marina 10cwt van axle uses a cast iron diff casing - all cars use a bog-standard typical BMC alloy casting.
    (Hubs have different PCD of course).
    Last edited by marlin1984; 13-09-2019 at 11:34 AM.
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