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Thread: top tie bar

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  1. #1 top tie bar 
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    Hi on my Roadster I have the tie bar which I understand is classic mini turned upside down, does anyone use anything else which looks better and can be adjusted to suit, thanks.
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  2. #2 Re: top tie bar 
    frequent forum contributor Club Member stevejgreen's Avatar
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    1st, it’s not upside down as the taper on the ball joint end would be the wrong way up on a Mini.

    2nd, I did look at this when I found excessive fore and aft movement on replacement Mini shaft, see Keepandshare, Pitstop etc. I decided against it, as I could not find a taper reamer for the top swivel, at a sensible price.

    3rd, there is a risk, on road cars, that obviously modified steering and suspension parts will fail an MOT! This could apply to the standard trials modification of shortening and re-welding the steering arms to replicate a fast steering rack.
    MOC member since 05/97
    1984 Marlin Roadster SWB.
    1800TC, Unleaded ported head, stage 2 cam. Ford Type 9 gearbox, Dolomite Sprint rear axle fitted with MGF disc brakes.
    Three core radiator, Renault Clio vented front discs.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

    Loads of Marlin Reference can be found documents here or there.
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  3. #3 Re: top tie bar 
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevejgreen View Post
    1st, it’s not upside down as the taper on the ball joint end would be the wrong way up on a Mini.

    2nd, I did look at this when I found excessive fore and aft movement on replacement Mini shaft, see Keepandshare, Pitstop etc. I decided against it, as I could not find a taper reamer for the top swivel, at a sensible price.

    3rd, there is a risk, on road cars, that obviously modified steering and suspension parts will fail an MOT! This could apply to the standard trials modification of shortening and re-welding the steering arms to replicate a fast steering rack.
    To continue a little, I believe that the taper on the ball joint is 1.5” per foot, somewhere close to 7°, the angle needs to be right, otherwise you run the risk of stress risers, fatigue and catastrophic failure. Sadly it’s not a standard morse taper which would make it a lot cheaper.
    From memory I was looking at about £150 delivered.

    The Marina front suspension is a compromise, the lower and upper arms are a very different length, so if the torsion bars are adjusted to maximise ride height the camber is radically different from the nominal design.

    Thats not to say that the project idea is impractical, I just thought that the cost/benefit was limited.
    MOC member since 05/97
    1984 Marlin Roadster SWB.
    1800TC, Unleaded ported head, stage 2 cam. Ford Type 9 gearbox, Dolomite Sprint rear axle fitted with MGF disc brakes.
    Three core radiator, Renault Clio vented front discs.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

    Loads of Marlin Reference can be found documents here or there.
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  4. #4 Re: top tie bar 
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    Just thought there may be a better looking wishbone type to what I have?, with having cycle wings the top bar is not very pretty, as for the bar being upside down that is what I was told at MOT station when I asked what it was, but thanks.
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  5. #5 Re: top tie bar 
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    The main reason (in my eyes) it's ugly is the big hole where the mini knuckle joint to the suspension doughnut would go

    When I get back to working on mine I intend machining something up to fill that hole
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  6. #6 Re: top tie bar 
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    Quote Originally Posted by yousay54 View Post
    Just thought there may be a better looking wishbone type to what I have?, with having cycle wings the top bar is not very pretty, as for the bar being upside down that is what I was told at MOT station when I asked what it was, but thanks.
    Another reason not to trust an MOT tester!

    The Classic Mini had either wet or dry suspension, the top arm, with or without that dreaded hole.

    There is a possible alternative, that comes from the mini racing pedigree, whether it is road legal or not, but it certainly has a bling factor.

    http://www.force-racing.co.uk/produc...lacement-type/

    I highly recommend that anyone inspecting or dismantling the Marlin Front Suspension should check the fore and aft clearances as I publish on Keepandshare and Pitstop. Technically any competent MOT tester should find the excess movement, but I think I have indicated the level of trust that I have in their competence in relation to classic vehicles.
    MOC member since 05/97
    1984 Marlin Roadster SWB.
    1800TC, Unleaded ported head, stage 2 cam. Ford Type 9 gearbox, Dolomite Sprint rear axle fitted with MGF disc brakes.
    Three core radiator, Renault Clio vented front discs.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

    Loads of Marlin Reference can be found documents here or there.
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  7. #7 Re: top tie bar 
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    Hi that is pretty not what I want cant adjust it will keep looking something may come up or have some made, or keep as is , thanks.
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  8. #8 Re: top tie bar 
    frequent forum contributor Club Member stevejgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yousay54 View Post
    Hi that is pretty not what I want cant adjust it will keep looking something may come up or have some made, or keep as is , thanks.
    Good luck! I know of no adjustable Classic Mini Upper Arms.

    Having some fabricated, would require accurate jigging, normalising after welding followed by final machining, to remove any stress points, not necessarily a DIY job, unless you have welding/machining experience.

    I am concerned that there may be a loss of rigidity with a single adjustable point, rather than a triangular design, the Marina suspension has always been a bit vague at the best of times.
    If you do give it a go, then let us all know how you get on, with progress through to an MOT inspection, and road test.

    Personally, having researched the topic previously, I think it’s a dead end, especially if the Classic Mini Forums appear to have reached the same conclusions.

    I hope that the information that I have provided provides guidance to anyone with a similar project.
    MOC member since 05/97
    1984 Marlin Roadster SWB.
    1800TC, Unleaded ported head, stage 2 cam. Ford Type 9 gearbox, Dolomite Sprint rear axle fitted with MGF disc brakes.
    Three core radiator, Renault Clio vented front discs.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

    Loads of Marlin Reference can be found documents here or there.
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  9. #9 Re: top tie bar 
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    Hi that would be nice to fill or cover the large hole as Duncan says, you could machine alloy to fit and glue in place, anyone can do that or have done it? oh don't have a lathe, just a thought, cheers.
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  10. #10 Re: top tie bar 
    frequent forum contributor Club Member stevejgreen's Avatar
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    I don’t, know the (presumably) imperial dimension of the hole.
    Plastic parts are usually designed for holes in sheet materials, rubber is more forgiving.

    A starting point might be https://www.rgstech.co.uk/?post_type...=0&s=Body+plug
    but there will be dozens of other suppliers with similar products. I can’t see a problem with material compatibility, a dab of “Red Rubber Grease” should help with a slightly oversized plugs.

    Alternatively fill the hole with Epoxy or similar material, nobody will ever know once it has a splash of paint.

    This is quite a rabbit hole that you have opened!
    MOC member since 05/97
    1984 Marlin Roadster SWB.
    1800TC, Unleaded ported head, stage 2 cam. Ford Type 9 gearbox, Dolomite Sprint rear axle fitted with MGF disc brakes.
    Three core radiator, Renault Clio vented front discs.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

    Loads of Marlin Reference can be found documents here or there.
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